ARTANE HEARINGS 2
BROTHER MICHAEL REYNOLDS HAVING BEEN SWORN WAS EXAMINED, AS FOLLOWS, BY MR. McGOVERN
THE CHAIRPERSON: Sit down, Br. Reynolds.
Thank you very much.
MR. McGOVERN: Good morning, Br. Reynolds.
A. Good morning.
Q. I understand that you are the Deputy Leader of St. Mary's Province in Ireland?
A. That's correct.
Q. One of two provinces of the Christian Brothers?
A. Yes.
Q. You were appointed to the province leadership team in March 1998 and then to the position of Deputy Leader in April 2002?
A. That's correct, yes.
Q. I think you have been instrumental in preparing a statement to the Commission, is that right?
A. Yes, correct.
Q. That sets out in broad terms the position of the Christian Brothers on the issues which have arisen giving rise to this Commission's work?
A. Yes.
Q. Can I ask you were you yourself at any time in Artane as a Brother doing work there?
A. No, not in the industrial school, no.
Q. I think you are familiar with the layout?
A. I am familiar with the buildings and the place as it is now. As it was within 12 years of its closing, from there on I was familiar with it for a number of years.
Q. On the first page of your statement you say that the contents of the submission is based on certain material, would you tell the Commission what that material was?
A. The main sources are the archives of the Christian Brothers, but the province archives which are located on the North Circular Road in the Provincial Headquarters and the archives in Rome. All of the documentation used has already been discovered to the Commission. In addition to that, speaking to Brothers and others who worked there, including former residents, and from various other documents I have referred to that are in the public domain and so on, and various other reports with which people are familiar.
Q. In compiling this submission and in making some of the comments that it does make, was any regard had to the written complaints which were submitted by any former residents in Artane?
A. Let's say it was written in the consciousness of all of these but not specifically in relation to any individual complaints. I would be reasonably familiar with the overall picture also that is presented in the complaints, yes.
Q. You make comment about newspaper reports and radio and television reports. What is your general comment and the comment of the Christian Brothers with regard to media reports in recent times on Artane?
A. My general view on that is that from the late 1980's onwards the picture that was presented at Artane was one that was predominantly negative and I would certainly say that the record shows that that is not true. I would say it was seriously unbalanced and I would say that it probably in a sense has conditioned the public mind, the mind of the public to that.
Certainly the main tenor of my submission would be that taken in the round and in the whole Artane was quite a positive place that made a great contribution to people who were in need. That is not in any way to belittle -- certainly the Congregation does not wish to add hurt to anybody who was abused there, we apologised for that in March 1998 and we repeat that apology to anybody who has been abused. Nonetheless, I think there is need for balance at this stage because the Congregation's position is that Artane in the whole and in the round was a very positive institution.
Q. Your statement is a lengthy one and I am not going to take you verbatim through it. Obviously the Commissioners have the statements and will consider everything that is in it. There are certain aspects of the contents of the submissions which I would like to take you through and there are some areas, such as funding, which have already been covered to a certain extent in the public hearing in Letterfrack, also involving the Christian Brothers. There are certain particular details you might want to address with regard to that. I think one of the concerns that the Brothers have that emerges from the submission is to contextualise the various matters which have been complained of, is that correct?
A. Correct. I think it is very difficult for everybody in the sense that Artane, as you have already said, closed on 30th June 1969, which is quite some time back. So the lapse of time alone makes it difficult to present a picture. The picture of Artane that is presented and is now in the public mind to a large extent does not help. A lot of the Brothers who worked there are now deceased and, therefore, we haven't the benefit of their direct evidence. A lot of those who are still alive are well advanced in age. They are people who worked there in the 1940's and the 1950's. Even the 1960's is a long time back. The other concerns we would have is that in relation to all of this, it is almost putting an onus on people to prove their innocence, which is really an inversion of the normal process. Therefore, it makes everybody's task, including the task of the Committee, quite difficult.
The other thing in relation to context is that many of the attitudes and behaviours that were acceptable at that time in the 1940's, 1950's and 1960's would now not be acceptable, and I accept that. I instance in the submission the industrial school system itself is now gone, but it was the system of the time with its imperfections and so on. The other one I instance is corporal punishment that at that time was common enough in family homes, in schools and so on, and that now has been abolished in schools in Ireland since 1982 and obviously is not acceptable, but within its time it was part of the system.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Sit down, Br. Reynolds.
Thank you very much.
MR. McGOVERN: Good morning, Br. Reynolds.
A. Good morning.
Q. I understand that you are the Deputy Leader of St. Mary's Province in Ireland?
A. That's correct.
Q. One of two provinces of the Christian Brothers?
A. Yes.
Q. You were appointed to the province leadership team in March 1998 and then to the position of Deputy Leader in April 2002?
A. That's correct, yes.
Q. I think you have been instrumental in preparing a statement to the Commission, is that right?
A. Yes, correct.
Q. That sets out in broad terms the position of the Christian Brothers on the issues which have arisen giving rise to this Commission's work?
A. Yes.
Q. Can I ask you were you yourself at any time in Artane as a Brother doing work there?
A. No, not in the industrial school, no.
Q. I think you are familiar with the layout?
A. I am familiar with the buildings and the place as it is now. As it was within 12 years of its closing, from there on I was familiar with it for a number of years.
Q. On the first page of your statement you say that the contents of the submission is based on certain material, would you tell the Commission what that material was?
A. The main sources are the archives of the Christian Brothers, but the province archives which are located on the North Circular Road in the Provincial Headquarters and the archives in Rome. All of the documentation used has already been discovered to the Commission. In addition to that, speaking to Brothers and others who worked there, including former residents, and from various other documents I have referred to that are in the public domain and so on, and various other reports with which people are familiar.
Q. In compiling this submission and in making some of the comments that it does make, was any regard had to the written complaints which were submitted by any former residents in Artane?
A. Let's say it was written in the consciousness of all of these but not specifically in relation to any individual complaints. I would be reasonably familiar with the overall picture also that is presented in the complaints, yes.
Q. You make comment about newspaper reports and radio and television reports. What is your general comment and the comment of the Christian Brothers with regard to media reports in recent times on Artane?
A. My general view on that is that from the late 1980's onwards the picture that was presented at Artane was one that was predominantly negative and I would certainly say that the record shows that that is not true. I would say it was seriously unbalanced and I would say that it probably in a sense has conditioned the public mind, the mind of the public to that.
Certainly the main tenor of my submission would be that taken in the round and in the whole Artane was quite a positive place that made a great contribution to people who were in need. That is not in any way to belittle -- certainly the Congregation does not wish to add hurt to anybody who was abused there, we apologised for that in March 1998 and we repeat that apology to anybody who has been abused. Nonetheless, I think there is need for balance at this stage because the Congregation's position is that Artane in the whole and in the round was a very positive institution.
Q. Your statement is a lengthy one and I am not going to take you verbatim through it. Obviously the Commissioners have the statements and will consider everything that is in it. There are certain aspects of the contents of the submissions which I would like to take you through and there are some areas, such as funding, which have already been covered to a certain extent in the public hearing in Letterfrack, also involving the Christian Brothers. There are certain particular details you might want to address with regard to that. I think one of the concerns that the Brothers have that emerges from the submission is to contextualise the various matters which have been complained of, is that correct?
A. Correct. I think it is very difficult for everybody in the sense that Artane, as you have already said, closed on 30th June 1969, which is quite some time back. So the lapse of time alone makes it difficult to present a picture. The picture of Artane that is presented and is now in the public mind to a large extent does not help. A lot of the Brothers who worked there are now deceased and, therefore, we haven't the benefit of their direct evidence. A lot of those who are still alive are well advanced in age. They are people who worked there in the 1940's and the 1950's. Even the 1960's is a long time back. The other concerns we would have is that in relation to all of this, it is almost putting an onus on people to prove their innocence, which is really an inversion of the normal process. Therefore, it makes everybody's task, including the task of the Committee, quite difficult.
The other thing in relation to context is that many of the attitudes and behaviours that were acceptable at that time in the 1940's, 1950's and 1960's would now not be acceptable, and I accept that. I instance in the submission the industrial school system itself is now gone, but it was the system of the time with its imperfections and so on. The other one I instance is corporal punishment that at that time was common enough in family homes, in schools and so on, and that now has been abolished in schools in Ireland since 1982 and obviously is not acceptable, but within its time it was part of the system.
posted by The Knitter | Sunday, September 18, 2005
0 Comments:
Post a Comment
Subscribe to Post Comments [Atom]
<< Home